I approached him, “So, are you from Ft. Rich or Elmendorf?”
He shot back, “I live closest to Rt. Rich.” An Army base right outside of Anchorage.
“Yeah,” we were starting to grin and what not, and I asked, “Whereabouts near Ft. Rich?”
He admitted, “Well, actually, I live out in the Valley.”
“You’re kidding me, right?...You’re kidding me?” I queried.
OK…fast forward the conversation about 20 minutes in…
I tried to open the conversation a little, “Austin, you’re an articulate man…I mean that…you obviously have done quite a bit of thinking about the Bible and what it teaches. But I want to try to get something out to you…and I don’t know if I can express it very clearly…so hang in here with me.”
I continued, “OK. Here goes. We, who are Protestants and profess the faith of Christianity that’s been believed down through the centuries, have always tried to leave faith as part of the Christian life. God is God. Man is man. The doctrine or the teaching point of the Trinity, that is, 1+1+1=1 requires faith…we are finite creatures.”
Austin jumped in, “Now wait a minute…the Bible tells us we can have accurate knowledge…we can know God, we can know Him, after all, we’re His children.”
“You’re right, Austin….I don’t mean to come across by saying that God is unknowable,” I said.I went on, “There’s mystery. We have to leave some things to God…like….uh…like, OK, here’s one: like the Bible. Who wrote the Bible—God or man? Somehow God so worked in man that God used man….how…exactly how did God use man to write the Bible? I do not know…I leave room for mystery about that.”
I gave another example, “God is over all things—He’s made everything—and He, at the same time, is all around us.” I then said it this way, “God is up and God is down.”
Then I asked him, “How do we explain that God is both above us and right here with us at the exact same time?” I answered, “We trust Him by faith; we believe what He has said about His own existence—He’s King, who is over us (Austin liked that title for God, “King”), and at the same time, is right here active and in control of all things.”
Austin assessed things and said, “The Trinity doesn’t make sense.”
He went on, “What do you think of the baptism of Jesus…He’s a man…He talked to Jehovah (that’s the name we use)…. And…..what about the other times where the Son talked to God—you tell me, Mark: How does God talk to God?” He summarized, “We’re talking about two separate distinct beings—separate, different, individual.”
The sun was blaring down. He was standing beside his pick-up and was having to go. I was starting to get a little tied up in emotional knots.
I offered one more thing: “Austin, I realize that this is going to sound pretty high minded and philosophical and all, but let me give it shot….here goes: do you know that for us to have this conversation we are both having to assume the reality of the Bible’s teaching on the Christian doctrine of the Trinity? I know that sounds kind of out there. But it’s true. We are working at this conversation, right now, and we are able to have this conversation right now, because we are working with two assumptions. 1) We are two distinct, separate and individual persons. 2) We are one and the same in that we share humanity as God’s creatures, as men made in His image—we come from One Father and God of all.”
I asked him, “Austin, do you follow that?”
Austin kind of smiled.
I mentioned to him, “Think of it…. God is One and God is Three.”
I did not attempt to explain the co-existence, co-sharing of the co-eternal being of the Godhead—the equality of existence of the oneness of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I attempted one more time. “Austin, your particular existence, your separate existence allows you to speak with me. And my distinct, separate existence allows me to think of things to say and then say them to you….Also, the only reason we can speak to one another and carry on a conversation is because we share aspects of sameness—we’re both creatures, we’re both seeking to communicate, we’re both dependent image-bearers of God, Who is the One from Whom we originate and live… We must make use of the doctrine of the Trinity for life to make sense, for us to be able to have this conversation…we are borrowing from the reality of God Who exists as One and Three—Unity and Diversity, Oneness and Particularity.”
We shook hands to wrap up the conversation—it was a good firm Alaskan handshake—he remains a Jehovah Witness. He listened well. He was patient. He was gracious. But Austin believes that Jesus Christ is a creature, a perfect man.
G. Mark Sumpter
